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MEADOR: FOR CENTURIES, CLERGY
HAVE BEEN INTIMATELY INVOLVED IN CARING FOR THE NEEDS
OF THEIR CONGREGATIONS. SOMETIMES PEOPLE
TURN TO CLERGY WITH QUESTIONS
ABOUT GOD, EXISTENCE, OR THE TEACHINGS
OF THEIR FAITH TRADITION. HOWEVER, FOR THOSE
IN DISTRESS, SELDOM ARE SUCH SPIRITUAL
OR THEOLOGICAL QUESTIONS DETACHED FROM
LIFE CIRCUMSTANCES. GRIEF, ANGER, SADNESS,
ANXIETY, LOSS, WORRY, RELATIONAL CONFLICTS– THESE AND MANY OTHER
INEVITABLE LIFE EXPERIENCES COMMONLY PERMEATE THE LIVES
THAT CLERGYPERSONS ATTEND TO. AT TIMES, IT MAY BE
THAT SOME INDIVIDUALS COULD MOST BENEFIT
FROM THE ADDITIONAL, WHICH IS NOT TO SAY
SUBSTITUTIVE, ATTENTION OF A MENTAL
HEALTH PROFESSIONAL. OFTEN, THOUGH, COLLABORATION
BETWEEN CLERGY AND MENTAL HEALTH PROVIDERS
HAS NOT BEEN WHAT IT COULD BE. THERE IS NO
ONE-SIZE-FITS-ALL APPROACH FOR HOW CLERGY AND MENTAL HEALTH
OUGHT TO COLLABORATE, AND IT IS NOT OUR INTENTION
TO SUMMARILY DISMISS SOME OF THE REAL CHALLENGES
THAT DO EXIST. BUT OUR HOPE WITH THIS VIDEO IS
TO BEGIN TO STIMULATE THINKING AND PROVIDE SOME SIGNPOSTS
POINTING TOWARD HOW THESE COLLABORATIVE
RELATIONSHIPS OF CARE MIGHT BE IMPROVED SO THAT ULTIMATELY,
THESE PARTNERSHIPS CAN BUILD AND SUSTAIN
MORE COMPREHENSIVE AND NURTURING
COMMUNITIES OF CARE.

CANTRELL: HELLO.
I'M FATHER BILL CANTRELL, AND I SERVE AS ASSOCIATE
DIRECTOR OF CHAPLAINCY FOR MENTAL HEALTH
AND CHAPLAINCY IN THE DEPARTMENT
OF VETERANS AFFAIRS. YOU ARE VIEWING
THE FIRST OF TWO VIDEOS CREATED TO ENCOURAGE
YOUR CONSIDERATION AND EXPLORATION
AND TO FOSTER DISCUSSION BETWEEN YOU AND YOUR PEERS
REGARDING HOW YOU MIGHT, AS LEADERS
OF FAITH COMMUNITIES, CREATE AND SUSTAIN
A WELCOMING SPIRITUAL HOME FOR THOSE WITH
MENTAL HEALTH PROBLEMS. THROUGH THE YEARS
THAT I HAVE SERVED AS A PARISH PRIEST,
AS A CHAPLAIN IN THE NAVY, AND IN CLINICAL SETTINGS BOTH
MEDICAL AND IN MENTAL HEALTH, THOSE WHO HAVE
COME TO ME FOR HELP COME LOOKING FOR A REASON
TO HOPE AGAIN.

FOR THOSE CARRYING THE BURDEN
OF MENTAL HEALTH PROBLEMS, MUCH OF THE SUFFERING PRESENTED
COMES FROM THE SILENCE OF NOT BEING ABLE TO DISCLOSE
THE INTENSITY, FREQUENCY, AND DEPTH OF THEIR ANGUISH
TO OTHERS WITHOUT FEAR
OF REJECTION, JUDGMENT, IMPACT ON THEIR CAREERS,
THEIR MARRIAGE, OR THEIR FAMILY. THEY CAME TO ME
AS A PRIEST. THEY TRUSTED IN THE CONFIDENCE
I PLEDGED IN MY ORDINATION. AS OF 2012, A STUDY FROM THE NATIONAL INSTITUTE
OF MENTAL HEALTH NOTED A LITTLE OVER 25%
OF OUR ADULT POPULATION IN THE UNITED STATES
SUFFERS FROM A DIAGNOSABLE
MENTAL HEALTH DISORDER IN A GIVEN YEAR. THAT EQUATES TO ABOUT
50 MILLION PEOPLE. MANY OF THESE PEOPLE
ATTEND OUR SYNAGOGUES, CHURCHES, TEMPLES,
AND MOSQUES AS THEY SEEK COMFORT
AND SPIRITUAL NOURISHMENT. THE ALREADY CHALLENGING STRUGGLE
FOR THOSE INDIVIDUALS AND FAMILIES DEALING WITH
MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES ONLY BECOMES GREATER WHEN THEIR CLERGY
AND FAITH COMMUNITIES DO NOT UNDERSTAND
THEIR DILEMMA.

A BASIC UNDERSTANDING
CAN OPEN THE DOOR FOR THEM TO ENTER AND GET HELP, AND IT CAN REDUCE
THE EXPERIENCE OF BEING JUDGED, ISOLATED, OR SHAMED
IF ONE WAS TO DISCLOSE THEIR STORY TO THEIR FAITH
COMMUNITY LEADERSHIP. BY FEATURING DIVERSE CLERGY
AND LAY LEADERSHIP, INCLUDING A PASTOR,
A CHURCH COUNSELOR, A CONGREGATIONAL
CARE COORDINATOR, A RABBI, AN IMAM,
AND A PSYCHIATRIST WITH DIVINITY SCHOOL
TRAINING. THESE VIDEOS SEEK
TO INVITE YOU TO CONSIDER A VARIETY
OF PERSPECTIVES THAT MAY BE APPLICABLE
TO YOUR FAITH COMMUNITY. KINGHORN:
PEOPLE LIKE ME, PSYCHIATRISTS AND COUNSELORS
AND THERAPISTS, ARE OFTEN PERCEIVED TO EXIST
WITHIN HEALTH CARE SYSTEMS, YOU NEED INSURANCE OR YOU NEED
SOME KIND OF HEALTH CARE BENEFIT TO GO TO SEE SOMEONE,
IT TAKES MAKING AN APPOINTMENT. AND TYPICALLY WHEN YOU GO IN
AND SEE A THERAPIST, YOU'RE GOING IN TO SEE SOMEBODY
THAT YOU HAVEN'T MET BEFORE, OR MAYBE YOU'VE MET
ONLY THROUGH A RECOMMENDATION.

BUT CLERGY
YOU ALREADY KNOW, BECAUSE THEY'RE ALREADY
PART OF YOUR COMMUNITY. CLERGY…KNOW
THEIR COMMUNITIES. THEY KNOW THE PEOPLE
ESPECIALLY THAT ARE… THAT ARE REGULAR PARTICIPANTS
IN THEIR COMMUNITIES. AND THEY…THEY OFTEN HAVE
LONGSTANDING RELATIONSHIPS WITH PEOPLE, SO YOU GET
TO KNOW PEOPLE. YOU KNOW WHO THEY ARE.
YOU KNOW WHO THEIR FAMILIES ARE. YOU KNOW WHAT THEY…WHAT THEY
LIKE AND WHAT THEY DON'T OFTEN. AND THAT'S NOT TO SAY
THAT ANY CLERGY EVER HAS THE RESPONSIBILITY
TO KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT ANY OF HIS OR HER
CONGREGANTS, BUT THE CLERGY TEND TO HAVE
ESTABLISHED RELATIONSHIPS.

SO WHEN PEOPLE START SEEMING
NOT THEMSELVES, WHEN THEY START SEEMING
MORE SAD THAN USUAL, MORE STRESSED
THAN USUAL, MAYBE MORE ISOLATING
MORE THAN USUAL, WHEN PEOPLE, UM,
ARE GOING THROUGH, UM, MARITAL CHALLENGES
OR RELATIONSHIP CHALLENGES OR PROBLEMS RELATED
TO THEIR PARENTS OR THEIR CHILDREN OR OTHER
FAMILY MEMBERS OR OTHERS, THEN…THEN OFTEN
THAT WILL SHOW UP, AND PEOPLE WILL SEEM
MORE STRESSED, AND THEY'LL SEEM MORE ISOLATED,
AND THEY'LL SEEM MORE ALONE. AND SOMETIMES THE PERSON
WILL COME TO A CLERGYPERSON TO ASK FOR COUNSEL. CLERGY TELL ME THAT PEOPLE
WILL COME TO THEM WHEN THINGS ARE JUST NOT
GOING WELL IN LIFE. SOMETIMES IT DOESN'T HAVE A CLINICAL TERM
ASSOCIATED WITH IT.

IT MIGHT BE THAT
SOMEBODY IS STRESSED. IT MAY BE THAT A RELATIONSHIP
IS BREAKING DOWN OR NOT GOING WELL. IT MIGHT BE THAT A CERTAIN KIND
OF LIFE TRANSITION, LIKE SOMEONE WHO'S LEAVING
SCHOOL OR GOING TO SCHOOL OR ENTERING A RELATIONSHIP
OR LEAVING A RELATIONSHIP WILL FEEL REALLY STRESSED
AND ALONE IN THAT CONTEXT. IF I WERE TO PUT
A CLINICAL LABEL ON IT, PEOPLE WILL GO TO CLERGY
WHEN THEY'RE ANXIOUS, WHEN THEY'RE DEPRESSED,
WHEN THEY'RE STRESSED, WHEN THEY'RE…
WHEN THEY'RE UNSURE ABOUT WHICH WAY
TO GO IN LIFE AND…AND ARE SEEKING
COUNSEL FOR THAT. THAT'S OFTEN WHAT PEOPLE
WILL INITIALLY PRESENT WITH. CLERGY, LIKE THERAPISTS
AND LIKE PHYSICIANS, ARE CALLED TO ACCOMPANY
THOSE THAT ARE ON A JOURNEY, TO BE HUMAN BEINGS ACCOMPANYING
OTHER HUMAN BEINGS ON A JOURNEY, AND CLERGY USUALLY DO THAT
MARVELOUSLY WELL, DON'T NEED MENTAL HEALTH
PROFESSIONALS LIKE ME TO…TO STEP IN, BUT SOMETIMES WE ALL,
AS HUMAN BEINGS, GO THROUGH THINGS
THAT ARE COMPLICATED AND ARE CHALLENGING.

IT MIGHT BE BASED ON SOMETHING
GOING WRONG IN THE BODY OR MIGHT NOT, BUT CLERGY
BEGIN TO THINK, "I'M TRYING TO WALK
WITH THIS PERSON, "BUT I'M NOT QUITE SURE
HOW TO HELP IN THIS MOMENT. "THE SADNESS SEEMS
TO BE TOO GREAT, "OR THE RELATIONSHIPS
SEEM TO BE TOO COMPLICATED, "OR I'M NOT SURE
HOW TO HELP THIS PERSON "WITHOUT MYSELF GETTING
SO CAUGHT UP IN THE PROBLEMS "THAT ARE GOING ON
THAT I'M LOSING "MY OWN ABILITY TO BE
HELPFUL IN THIS CASE, "WHERE THIS IS AFFECTING
THE HEALTH AND LIFE OF OUR COMMUNITY." IN THAT CASE, WHEN THE CHALLENGE
SEEMS TO BE… PRETTY SUBSTANTIAL,
THAT'S WHAT OTHERS ARE FOR, AND SPECIFICALLY,
I THINK THAT'S WHERE MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONALS,
WHETHER IT'S COUNSELORS OR THERAPISTS OR PSYCHIATRISTS
OR OTHER PHYSICIANS OR PSYCHOLOGISTS
CAN BE HELPFUL IN JOINING IN
AND BEING BROUGHT IN AT THAT…
AT THAT MOMENT.

MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONALS
AND…AND CLINICIANS CAN COME ALONGSIDE
THOSE ON A JOURNEY ALONG WITH CLERGY
TO BE ABLE TO ENSURE THAT PEOPLE GET
THE KIND OF HELP AND THE KIND OF SUPPORT
THAT THEY NEED. ALSO, ONE SPECIAL CASE OF THAT
IS WHENEVER THERE'S ANY CONCERN ABOUT SAFETY. IF SOMEONE IS TALKING
ABOUT SUICIDE, IF SOMEONE IS HAVING THOUGHTS
OF HURTING THEMSELVES, IF SOMEONE HAS A HISTORY OF HAVING DONE THINGS
TO HURT THEMSELVES, LIKE CUTTING OR OVERDOSING
OR…OR MORE, UM, IF SOMEONE
IS MAKING ANY COMMENTS THAT OTHERS MIGHT BE
IN DANGER, WHETHER IT'S,
OF COURSE, CHILDREN OR WHETHER IT'S
A PARTNER OR A SPOUSE OR SOMEONE THAT THEY MIGHT HAVE
AN ONGOING ARGUMENT WITH.

THEN I THINK WHEN SAFETY
IS INVOLVED, I WOULD ALWAYS ENCOURAGE
MORE SUPPORT RATHER THAN LESS FROM PEOPLE WITHIN
THE MENTAL HEALTH SYSTEM. POOLE: I THINK
PEOPLE COME TO… THEY MUSTER THE COURAGE– FOR SOME PEOPLE IT COMES
EASIER THAN OTHERS– TO…TO SAY…
TO ASK FOR TIME TO TALK WITH A PASTOR OR CLERGY
FOR LOTS OF DIFFERENT REASONS. I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS
THAT SEEMS CLEAR FROM MY PASTORAL
EXPERIENCE IS THAT PEOPLE WILL,
UH, TRUST YOU BASED ON THEIR OTHER
EXPERIENCES OF YOU NOT IN A SORT OF
A CONVERSATIONAL POSTURE. SO IF YOU GREET THEM
OR LEARN THEIR NAMES, THEY MIGHT…THEY MIGHT
THEN TAKE THE RISK TO COME SEE YOU. BUT EVEN IF YOU DON'T HAVE
THE PRIOR RELATIONSHIP, THERE'S THE POWER
OF THE OFFICE, I GUESS. UH…PEOPLE HAVE VARYING IDEAS
ABOUT WHAT A PASTOR IS OR WHAT CLERGY
ARE SUPPOSED TO DO. FOR SOME PEOPLE,
THAT'S NEGATIVE, AND THEY'VE HEARD STORIES,
OR THEY'VE HAD EXPERIENCES, OR THE FAMILY HAS SAT
AROUND THE DINNER TABLE COMPLAINING
ABOUT THE PASTOR. THOSE FOLKS ARE NOT LIKELY
TO COME TO ME. BUT THERE ARE
MANY, MANY OTHERS WHO I THINK RESPECT
THE OFFICE, AND IN MY UPBRINGING, I DIDN'T
THINK MUCH ABOUT THE OFFICE, BUT BY "THE OFFICE," I MEAN
THE FACT THAT THIS PERSON IS IN THE PASTORAL OFFICE,
HAS THAT MANTLE OF GOD'S AUTHORITY.

UH, THERE…THERE IS A HOPE
IN MANY PEOPLE THAT "PERHAPS THIS PERSON
CAN BE OF HELP TO ME," AND SO THEY'RE WILLING
TO TAKE THAT RISK. WEINTRAUB: I THINK A LOT OF JEWS
TURN TO CLERGY OR THE SYNAGOGUE WHEN THEY'RE SUFFERING,
UH, FOR SEVERAL REASONS. ONE IS, UM, THAT THEY EXPECT
TO RECEIVE AN EMPATHIC RESPONSE. ALSO, UM, TO RECEIVE
WHAT YOU MIGHT CALL AN…AN EMBRACE, A…A HOLDING,
LOVING, UM…CONTEXT IN WHICH TO…TO AT LEAST,
UM, STAND… STAND WITH THEIR PROBLEMS,
IF NOT EXPLORE THEM. AND FOR MANY PEOPLE,
THEY'RE HOPING TO GET FROM THE RABBI
OR OTHER CLERGY GUIDANCE. THERE ARE PARTICULAR ISSUES
THAT THEY ARE FACING, AND THEY WANT TO KNOW
WHAT THE JEWISH APPROACH COULD BE
TO THOSE PROBLEMS, AND I THINK SOME PEOPLE
ALSO COME FOR… UH, PRETTY EARLY ON
FOR FORGIVENESS, AND BY THAT I WAS THINKING
ABOUT PEOPLE WITH… WHO ARE HAVING
SCARY THOUGHTS BECAUSE OF THEIR
MENTAL HEALTH CHALLENGES AND…AND DESTRUCTIVE
AND VIOLENT THOUGHTS AND…AND, UM…WHETHER OR NOT
THEY'VE SOUGHT TREATMENT ALREADY OR HOPEFULLY ARE ABOUT TO,
UM, THE RABBI IN THE COMMUNITY CAN REASSURE THEM THAT
THEIR ILLNESS CAN BE ADDRESSED AND THAT THEY CAN, UM…
GET TO A PLACE WHERE THEY WON'T SUFFER
FROM THEM AS MUCH, AND THE FACT THAT THEY'RE
NOT ACTING ON THEM BUT JUST HAVING
THESE SCARY THOUGHTS IS SOMETHING THAT THEY DON'T
HAVE TO REALLY WORRY ABOUT.

AND FINALLY, I THINK
SOME PEOPLE COME TO A RABBI, UM, AS A BRIDGE
TO MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES. IT'S FOREIGN TO MANY PEOPLE,
AND IT'S STIGMATIZED. SO IF THE RABBI
CAN NORMALIZE IT, AND, UH…AND EVEN DESCRIBE IT
IN JEWISH TERMS AS…AS TAKING RESPONSIBILITY
FOR YOURSELF, I THINK THAT CAN HELP
A LOT OF PEOPLE. ZEB: I FEEL THAT PEOPLE
TURN TO CLERGY BECAUSE IN MANY PEOPLE'S
WORLD VIEWS, THEY VIEW THAT CLERGY HAVE
A DIRECT CONNECTION TO GOD, AND BECAUSE OF THAT,
THERE'S A TRUST THAT'S BUILT.

"IF THIS PERSON
IS CONNECTED TO GOD "AND IF GOD IS INDEED IN CONTROL
OF ALL MY AFFAIRS "AND THIS PERSON IS
TRYING TO LIVE A LIFE "OF RIGHTEOUSNESS
AND ETHICS AND MORALITY, THEN IT'S LOGICAL FOR ME
TO TURN TO HIM OR HER." UM, AND OFTENTIMES,
IT GOES BEYOND SPIRITUAL NEEDS. RIGHT? IN THE MUSLIM
COMMUNITY, FOR EXAMPLE, 17% OF MUSLIMS, WHEN THEY GO
FOR MENTAL HEALTH COUNSELING, WILL GO TO THEIR IMAM. SO WHAT THAT DOES IS IT PUTS
THE SPIRITUAL LEADERS IN A POSITION WHERE
THEY BETTER GET PREPARED AND BETTER START STUDYING
AND LEARNING ABOUT MENTAL HEALTH AND KNOWING THAT THEY'RE
NOT GOING TO BECOME LICENSED PSYCHIATRISTS, UM… NECESSARILY, HOWEVER,
THEY NEED TO BUILD A NETWORK. POOLE: MOST OF WHAT
I HAVE LEARNED IN TERMS OF RELATIONAL
ENGAGEMENT WITH PEOPLE WITH PROBLEMS
HAS NOT… DID NOT GET ITS START
IN SEMINARY. UM, IT'S COME AS A RESULT
OF ON-THE-JOB TRAINING, IF YOU WILL, OR LEARNING
AND PROCESSING AND GOING TO PEOPLE,
TRUSTED COUNSELORS, THERAPISTS, FRIENDS, OTHER PASTORS,
DESCRIBING IN THE ABSTRACT "WHAT WOULD YOU DO
IN THE SITUATION WHERE SOMEBODY
COMES TO YOU?" SOMEBODY MIGHT COME AND…
AND SPEAK TO ME ABOUT…

HER MOTHER-IN-LAW, AND WE END UP TALKING
ABOUT THEIR MARRIAGE, BECAUSE THE REAL REASON
SHE CAME TO TALK TO ME WAS, YEAH, THE MOTHER-IN-LAW
HAS BEEN A CHALLENGE, BUT IT'S THE CONFLICT
SHE'S HAVING WITH HER HUSBAND, THE WOMAN'S SON, WHERE THE REAL
ISSUE AND TENSION IS. IN TERMS OF
MY OWN BACKGROUND, I WAS NOT TRAINED
FOR ANY OF THIS. I WENT TO SEMINARY
TO LEARN BIBLICAL STUDIES, CHURCH HISTORY,
SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY, AND SO THERE ARE TIMES
WHEN PEOPLE WILL COME TO ME, AND THEY MIGHT
HAVE AN EXPECTATION THAT I'M TRAINED AS A COUNSELOR
OR A THERAPIST, AND THAT'S JUST
NOT THE CASE. I'VE HAD THE GREAT GIFT OF HAVING OTHERS
AROUND ME WITH WHOM I CAN CONSULT
ABOUT THESE THINGS. FROTHINGHAM: SO SOMEONE
WHO DOES CONGREGATIONAL CARE IS…PAYS ATTENTION
TO THE EXPRESSED NEEDS OF PEOPLE
IN THE CONGREGATION. IF SOMEONE STANDS UP
AND HAS A PRAYER REQUEST, UM, I ENCOURAGE MY… THERE'S A TEAM OF PEOPLE,
A COMMITTEE.

ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO MOVE TOWARD
THAT PERSON AND FOLLOW UP AND JUST PAYING
ATTENTION TO NEEDS AND PULLING ALONGSIDE PEOPLE,
TRYING NOT TO SOLVE, BUT HELPING THEM
FIND RESOURCES, UH, WHETHER IT'S PRAYER
OR THERAPY OR A SMALL GROUP, UH, FOLKS TO PRAY WITH,
OR CONNECTING THAT PERSON WITH SOMEONE ELSE
IN THE CONGREGATION WHO'S HAD
A SIMILAR ISSUE. THAT HAPPENS A LOT. SOMEONE WHO'S GRIEVING
OVER A MISCARRIAGE…

I KNOW OF SEVERAL PEOPLE
WHO HAVE HAD MISCARRIAGES AND HAVE SAID, "I'M WILLING
TO TALK TO THAT PERSON "ABOUT HOW THIS IS
AFFECTING HER MARRIAGE AND HOW THIS IS AFFECTING
HER PHYSICALLY." AND SO A LOT
OF IT IS, UM… IS CONNECTING PEOPLE WHO HAVE
STORIES WITH OTHER PEOPLE, AND OF COURSE,
WHEN I'M DOING IT BEST, I'M ACTUALLY NOT DOING
ALL THE WORK. IT'S ACCESSING THE RESOURCES
IN OUR CONGREGATION. AS, UH, PROGRAM STAFF,
PASTORAL STAFF AT BLACKNALL, SOMETIMES WE ARE
THE FIRST PEOPLE, UM… SOMEONE WHO…WHO MIGHT HAVE
A MENTAL ILLNESS OR WONDER IF
THEY NEED HELP… THESE PEOPLE MIGHT
COME TO US, UM, FIRST. WE MIGHT BE THE FIRST
PEOPLE THEY TELL, UM, THAT…THAT THEY
ARE STRUGGLING. EXAMPLES OF THIS
ARE WONDERING IF THEY HAVE SYMPTOMS
OF DEPRESSION OR PANIC ATTACKS OR HAVE
A RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM OR HAVE SEXUAL PROBLEMS,
HAVE, UM, UH…

PROBLEMS WITH CHILDREN, AND WHAT WE MIGHT HEAR AS SOMEONE COMES IN
AND CLOSES THE DOOR IS A COMBINATION
OF CON…CONFESSION, UH, ASKING FOR HELP, JUST ASKING
FOR SOMEBODY TO LISTEN. SOMEONE COMES AND IS TELLING US
OF AN…OF AN ISSUE, AND, UM, WHAT ALAN
HAS TAUGHT ME TO DO IS PAY ATTENTION
TO TEARS, UH, INSTEAD OF…ASSUMING I KNOW
WHAT THE TEARS ARE ABOUT, I'LL ASK, "WHAT ARE
THE TEARS ABOUT?" AND, UM…AND THEN JUST KEEP
FOLLOWING WHAT I HEAR. I'LL ASK ABOUT,
"HOW ARE YOU ABLE… ARE YOU ABLE TO FUNCTION
IN NORMAL LIFE?" OR "IS THIS IMPAIRING YOU
IN YOUR JOB?" OR… AND…AND AS…AND IT BECOMES
CLEAR DURING OUR CONVERSATION. I'LL GO AHEAD AND SAY,
"ARE YOU… ARE YOU WANTING TO SEE
A COUN…A PROFESSIONAL?" AND IF THERE ARE SIGNS,
IF SOMEONE IS DEPRESSED, I MIGHT EVEN ASK, UM,
"YOU SOUND… "YOU SOUND REALLY SAD. ARE YOU THINKING
OF HURTING YOURSELF?" IF THE PERSON HAS BEEN
THINKING OF THIS AND ARE MOVING TOWARD
A SUICIDE TRACK, UH, THERE OFTEN
WILL BE RELIEF THAT SOMEONE HAS TAKEN THEM
SERIOUSLY ENOUGH TO SAY, "WOW.

YOU SOUND
REALLY SAD. "HOW MUCH HAVE YOU
THOUGHT ABOUT THIS? OR HOW HAVE YOU THOUGHT
OF HURTING YOURSELF?" UM…AND OFTEN THEN
THAT MAKES IT CLEAR, YOU KNOW, "I'M OUT OF MY DEPTHS.
WOULD YOU CONSIDER… "YOU KNOW, THIS SOUNDS
LIKE A GOOD EXAMPLE FOR…FOR THERAPY." CANTRELL: SINCE CLERGY OFTEN
ARE FIRST-RESPONDERS WHEN PEOPLE ARE IN THE MIDST
OF LIFE'S CHALLENGES, IT'S IMPORTANT FOR THEM
TO BE ABLE TO HONESTLY ASSESS THEIR STRENGTHS, ABILITIES,
AND LIMITATIONS IF THE GOAL IS TO PROVIDE
OPTIMAL CARE TO THOSE
WHO ARE SUFFERING. KNOWING WHEN AND HOW TO REFER
TO OTHER AVAILABLE RESOURCES CAN BE NOT ONLY
A GREAT HELP TO CLERGY, BUT ALSO TRULY OFFER
THE BEST CARE TO THOSE WHO ARE SUFFERING
AND TURN TO CLERGY IN TRUST OF THEIR WISDOM
AND COUNSEL.

WHEN CLERGY DISCOVER
THE NEED TO REFER, THIS DOES NOT MEAN
THAT THEY HAVE TO FORFEIT THE COMFORTING
AND REDEEMING ELEMENTS THAT THEY COMMONLY
INCORPORATE INTO THEIR PASTORAL
AND SPIRITUAL CARE, BUT RATHER CONTINUE
TO OFFER THEM IN A MANNER THAT CLEARLY
REFLECTS THEIR FAITH TRADITIONS AND PERSPECTIVES
IN COUNSEL AND IN THE WISDOM
OF THEIR SACRED TEXTS AND IN PRAYER. CLERGY HAVE A DISTINCT PLACE
IN THE REALM OF DIVINE WISDOM, IN ADDRESSING THE BURDENS
OF GUILT AND SHAME, OFFERING FORGIVENESS,
HELPING TO RESTORE A VISION FOR THE POSSIBILITIES
OF RECONCILIATION, RETURN, AND REDEMPTION.

HOWEVER, THESE DISTINCTIVE
CONTRIBUTIONS FROM CLERGY ARE NOT ALWAYS UNDERSTOOD
AND APPRECIATED BY SOME IN THE MENTAL
HEALTH COMMUNITY. WEINTRAUB: I THINK THERE ARE
A NUMBER OF BARRIERS, UM, BETWEEN MENTAL HEALTH
PROFESSIONALS AND RABBIS IN COLLABORATING. ONE OF THEM IS THAT
THERE'S A PERCEPTION THAT, UM, PSYCHOLOGISTS AND
SOCIAL WORKERS, PSYCHIATRISTS ARE GODLESS, THAT THEY…THAT THEY'VE PUT
IN THE CENTER OF THE NARRATIVE NOT THE DIVINE OR THE COMMUNITY
OR THE TRADITION, BUT THE SELF,
THE INDIVIDUAL SELF. AND SO, UM…SOME PEOPLE
RESIST THE IDEA OF… OF REFERRING TO A PSYCHOLOGIST
OR…OR GOING TO A SOCIAL WORKER BECAUSE THEY FEEL LIKE IT WON'T
BE SUPPOSEDLY VALUE-FREE, BUT ACTUALLY, UM…
PUTTING HEAVY EMPHASIS ON THE INDIVIDUAL
AND HIS OR HER RIGHT TO DO WHAT
HE OR SHE WANTS. AND SO, FOR EXAMPLE,
WITH COUPLES– I WORK EXCLUSIVELY WITH COUPLES
IN MY PRIVATE PRACTICE– WITH COUPLES, THEY VERY OFTEN
HAVE TO GET OVER THE IDEA– MANY OF THEM DON'T KNOW
THAT I'M A RABBI AND THINK I'M
A SOCIAL WORKER– THEY HAVE TO GET OVER THE IDEA
THAT I HAVE NO VALUES.

I LET THEM KNOW THAT I,
AS AN INSTITUTION, I VALUE MARRIAGE
AND COMMITMENT AND RELIABILITY AND ALL THOSE THINGS,
AND, UM, SO… I THINK THAT, UM, THE…
THE NARRATIVE OF, UH… OF WHO'S IN THE CENTER OF THINGS
OR WHAT'S IN THE CENTER IS VERY DIFFERENT
OR MAY FEEL VERY DIFFERENT FROM RELIGION
AND MENTAL HEALTH. KINGHORN: A LOT OF ASSUMPTIONS
ARE MADE ABOUT THE WAY THAT
MENTAL HEALTH CLINICIANS ARE GOING TO
ENGAGE PEOPLE WHO COME OUT OF
RELIGIOUS COMMUNITIES AND FOR WHOM RELIGION
OR RELIGIOUS FAITH IS STRONGLY IMPORTANT, AND THIS CAN BE ALL KINDS
OF DIFFERENT ASSUMPTIONS, AND THEY MAY OR MAY NOT
BE HELPFUL. SOMETIMES THE ASSUMPTION
IS THAT A PSYCHIATRIST OR A PSYCHOLOGIST IS JUST
NOT GOING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT A STRONGLY FAITH-BASED
PERSPECTIVE WOULD BE LIKE, AND THERE'S SOME EVIDENCE
THAT THAT MIGHT BE TRUE IN SOME CASES. WE KNOW FROM
SURVEY RESEARCH THAT AMERICAN PSYCHIATRISTS
ON THE WHOLE ARE LESS RELIGIOUS
IN THEIR SELF-IDENTIFICATION THAN THE U.S. POPULATION
AS A WHOLE AND EVEN THAN THE GROUP
OF U.S. PHYSICIANS AS A WHOLE. U.S. PSYCHOLOGISTS ARE EVEN LESS
RELIGIOUS THAN PSYCHIATRISTS.

SO THERE'S A DISCONNECT BETWEEN
THE RELIGIOUS SELF-AFFILIATION OF AT LEAST PSYCHOLOGISTS
AND PSYCHIATRISTS AND OFTEN THE COMMUNITIES
THAT WE TREAT. BUT IT'S NOT
NECESSARILY SO. THE FACT
THAT A PSYCHIATRIST MAY NOT COME OUT OF
OUR FAITH COMMUNITY DOESN'T MEAN THAT HE OR SHE
ISN'T DEEPLY SYMPATHETIC OR CAN'T BE DEEPLY SYMPATHETIC
TO THE SPECIFIC KINDS OF NEEDS OF THOSE WHO ARE DEEPLY
INTEGRATED IN FAITH COMMUNITIES AND FOR WHICH FAITH
IS DEEPLY IMPORTANT. IT JUST DEPENDS,
AND YOU CAN'T KNOW, APART FROM CLEAR,
STRAIGHTFORWARD COMMUNICATION ON BOTH SIDES,
WITHOUT MAKING ASSUMPTIONS.

I SPEAK AS A CHRISTIAN
THEOLOGIAN, AND I'M PRETTY AWARE OF HOW AMERICAN CHRISTIANS
IN THE LAST HUNDRED YEARS HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT
PSYCHIATRY AND PSYCHOLOGY. ALWAYS, REALLY FROM
THE EARLIEST DAYS OF PSYCHIATRY
AND PSYCHOLOGY DATING BACK TO FREUD
AND…AND HIS CONTEMPORARIES, THERE HAVE BEEN
SOME PASTORS THAT HAVE BEEN DEEPLY
APPRECIATIVE AND INTERESTED IN ENGAGING WITH WHATEVER
WAS COMING DOWN THE PIKE WITH REGARD TO PSYCHIATRY
AND PSYCHOLOGY.

UH, IN SEMINARIES
FOR MOST OF THE 20th CENTURY, UH, MANY CLERGY
WERE TRAINED IN… IN WHATEVER THE LATEST MODELS
WERE IN MENTAL HEALTH. BUT THERE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN, UM,
A LOT OF CHRISTIAN CLERGY WHO HAVE BEEN DEEPLY SYMPATHETIC
TO THE MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONS WHO HAVE BEEN EAGER
TO WORK ON DESTIGMATIZING, WHO HAVE BEEN EAGER TO…
TO COLLABORATE WITH CLINICIANS TO MAKE REFERRALS, TO…TO WORK ON TALKING
ABOUT MENTAL HEALTH WITHIN THEIR CONGREGATIONS.

THERE'S ALSO
A HUGE MOVEMENT, ESPECIALLY WITHIN
EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANITY, THAT'S BEEN MUCH MORE,
UM…SKEPTICAL OF SOME FORMS OF PSYCHIATRY
AND PSYCHOLOGY. THAT IN PART COMES
FROM PERCEPTIONS THAT FREUD HIMSELF
WAS AGAINST RELIGION, AND THERE'S CERTAINLY
SOME TRUTH TO THAT. ALSO, AMERICAN BEHAVIORISM
THAT REALLY GAVE RISE TO OUR MODERN DISCIPLINE
OF PSYCHOLOGY WAS IN MANY WAYS
A WAY OF THINKING THAT WASN'T,
IN ITS INITIAL FORMS, UH…FRIENDLY TO FAITH
TRADITIONS OR PEOPLE OF FAITH. AND SO THERE'S THE PERCEPTION
THAT PSYCHIATRY AND PSYCHOLOGY ARE SOMEHOW SECULAR DISCIPLINES
THAT ARE SOMEHOW… UH, SOMEHOW OPPOSED
IN SOME WAYS TO THE GOODNESS OF WHO WE ARE
AS CHRISTIANS BEFORE GOD. THAT ITSELF HAS DIFFERENT
STRAINS ASSOCIATED WITH IT. UH, THERE'S TWO MAJOR STRAINS
THAT REALLY STARTED IN THE MIDDLE PART
OF THE 20th CENTURY AND CONTINUE
TO THIS DAY. ONE STRAIN IS WHAT WE MIGHT
CALL INTEGRATIONISM, AND THESE ARE
PEOPLE WHO… CHRISTIANS WHO DEEPLY FELT
THAT…THAT THE BIBLE WAS TO BE
A SOURCE OF WISDOM, BUT THERE WAS ALSO
DEEP WISDOM TO BE FOUND ESPECIALLY WITHIN
CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGY.

AND THAT CONTINUES
TO THIS DAY. SO A LOT OF PEOPLE
WHO ADVERTISE THEMSELVES AS CHRISTIAN
PSYCHOLOGISTS CONTINUE IN THAT
INTEGRATIONIST STRAIN. THERE'S ANOTHER
VERY LARGE MOVEMENT CALLED BIBLICAL COUNSELING
THAT HAS DIFFERENT NAMES AND DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES
ASSOCIATED WITH IT. BUT THIS EMERGED FROM FOLKS
WHO NOT ONLY WERE SKEPTICAL OF PSYCHOLO…
OF SECULAR PSYCHOLOGY, BUT THEY WERE ALSO SKEPTICAL
OF THESE INTEGRATIONISTS. THEY THOUGHT, YOU KNOW,
PSYCHOLOGY ITSELF IS SO DEEPLY, UM…
SO DEEPLY PARTICIPATES IN THESE SECULAR PRINCIPLES THAT WE REALLY NEED TO
GET BACK TO THE BASICS, AND…AND FOR SOME
OF THE EARLIEST AND MOST PROMINENT SPOKESMEN
IN THIS FIELD, IT WAS LOOKING AT THE BIBLE
AS A SOURCE TEXT FOR COUNSELING, AND THE PASTOR,
NOT THE THERAPIST OR THE PSYCHIATRIST
OR THE CLINICIAN, AS THE PRIMARY COUNSELOR. SO PASTORS OFTEN GET
TAUGHT IN SEMINARY IN SOME PLACES
AND IN SOME WAYS TO BE SOMEWHAT SUSPICIOUS
AND SKEPTICAL OF MENTAL HEALTH SYSTEMS. AND THEN THIS KIND OF
HITS THE ROAD WHEN PEOPLE ARE
IN A CHURCH CONTEXT OR IN A FAITH
COMMUNITY CONTEXT AND SOMEONE WITH…
WITH SERIOUS, UM… PSYCHOLOGICAL, EMOTIONAL
CHALLENGES PRESENTS.

HOW DOES THE PASTOR
THEN RESPOND? IS IT ONLY BY LOOKING
AT SCRIPTURE, OR IS IT ALSO BY COLLABORATING
WITH DIFFERENT CLINICAL SYSTEMS? SO THERE'S…THERE'S DEEPLY
HISTORIC STRUCTURAL CHALLENGES THAT SOMETIMES SERVE
AS BARRIERS. CANTRELL: INTEGRATING
MENTAL HEALTH AND PASTORAL CARE INCLUDES BOTH COMPLEMENTARY
AND COMPETING APPROACHES. AS MENTIONED AT THE BEGINNING
OF THIS SERIES, OUR HOPE IS TO PROMPT
THOUGHT AND CONVERSATION ABOUT HOW TO BEST CARE
AND SUPPORT THE QUARTER
OF OUR POPULATION THAT SUFFERS FROM
MENTAL HEALTH PROBLEMS. EVERY STORY PRESENTED TO CLERGY
IN TIMES OF DISTRESS PRESENTS THE CHALLENGE
OF DISCERNMENT AS TO WHERE THEY CAN CONTRIBUTE
THROUGH COUNSEL, PRAYER, FORGIVENESS, COMFORT, AND IN THE CASES
WHERE THERE MAY BE CONCERN OF SIGNIFICANT MENTAL ILLNESS,
WHO THEY CAN TRUST AS PARTNERS IN THE CARE
OF THESE CHILDREN OF GOD. SOME CLERGY
HAVE BEEN FORTUNATE TO HAVE STAFF TO HELP
IN THIS PROCESS, YET MOST ARE LEFT
TO THEIR OWN ASSESSMENT. NOW LET'S LISTEN
TO DR. MONIQUE GADSON, A CHURCH COUNSELOR
IN DECATUR, GEORGIA. GADSON: UPON COMPLETION OF MY MASTER'S
GRADUATE TRAINING, I DID NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO
WITH EVERYTHING THAT, UM, I HAD ACCOMPLISHED
IN SCHOOL. SO I SAT DOWN WITH MY PASTOR
AT THE TIME AND JUST TOLD HIM WHAT I FELT
MY BURDEN WAS, MY CALL, AND IF THERE WAS
ANYTHING THAT I COULD EVER DO WITHIN THE CHURCH SETTING,
I WAS MORE THAN WILLING TO ASSIST HIM
WHEREVER NEEDED.

HE RECOGNIZED THAT A LOT
OF HIS APPOINTMENTS, UM… WHEN PEOPLE WOULD
SCHEDULE TIME WITH HIM, WERE A RESULT OF PEOPLE
NEEDING COUNSELING, AND HE RECOGNIZED THAT
THE MAJORITY OF HIS SCHEDULING SURROUNDING…SURROUNDED
ISSUES OF COUNSELING. SO HE DID ASK, UM…
IF I WOULD BE BROUGHT ON AS PART OF THE STAFF, AND IF THAT PART OF HIS SCHEDULE
COULD BE LIFTED AND KIND OF TRANSFERRED
TO ME, IF YOU WILL, IT WOULD HELP, UM, ELIMINATE
SOME OF THE STRESSORS AND FREE UP
SOME TIME FOR HIM AND ALSO GIVE HIM MORE TIME
TO DO WHAT HE IS CALLED TO DO, AND THAT IS STUDY AND PREACH
AND TEACH THE WORD. SO…THAT'S HOW I CAME
ON STAFF AT THE CHURCH, BEULAH BAPTIST CHURCH
IN DECATUR, WHERE I WORK NOW.

BEEN THERE
FOR 14 YEARS. I'M IN A UNIQUE SITUATION
IN THAT… THE CHURCH IS PREDOMINANTLY
AFRICAN-AMERICAN, AND SPECIFICALLY
AS IT RELATES TO AFRICAN-AMERICAN
DENOMINATION, THERE HAS BEEN
A HISTORY OF MISTRUST WHEN IT COMES TO
MENTAL HEALTH CLINICIANS. THE CHURCH IS
A FAIRLY LARGE CHURCH. PEOPLE WOULD THINK
THAT MY CALENDAR STAYS FULL AND BOOKED
ALL OF THE TIME, BUT THAT'S NOT
NECESSARILY THE CASE, AND THAT'S SIMPLY BECAUSE
PEOPLE ARE HAVING TO… BECOME COMFORTABLE
WITH SEEKING OUT MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES
WHEN MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES ARE INDEED NEEDED. I DO BELIEVE THAT
WITH EACH INDIVIDUAL REFERRAL, WITH EACH INDIVIDUAL ENCOUNTER,
IT INVITES AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE A LARGER DISCUSSION
ABOUT WHAT IT IS THAT WE CAN DO
SYSTEMICALLY TO AGAIN MAKE
MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES MORE NORMALIZED, IF YOU WILL,
IN THE FAITH COMMUNITY.

FOR EXAMPLE, PERHAPS
IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA TO START A SUPPORT GROUP
MINISTRY WITHIN THE CHURCH SO THAT PEOPLE WHO HAVE
SHARED EXPERIENCES, UM, EITHER IT BE DIVORCE
OR GRIEF, OR, UM… VETERANS WHO ARE
DEALING WITH PTSD AND DEALING WITH REENTRY
INTO CIVILIAN LIFE, THEN THERE BECOMES
THIS LARGER COMMUNITY THAT ORGANIZES ITSELF
INTO SMALLER COMMUNITIES WHERE YOU CAN BRING ABOUT PEOPLE
WHO HAVE SHARED EXPERIENCES, AND THAT CAN BE A PLACE
WHERE PEOPLE FEEL AS THOUGH "THERE IS A PLACE
FOR ME TO BELONG, "THERE IS UNDERSTANDING,
THERE IS COMPASSION, THERE IS ENCOURAGEMENT,"
WHICH ARE SUPPOSED TO BE NATURAL BY-PRODUCTS
OF BEING A PART OF A FAITH COMMUNITY
ANYWAY. CANTRELL: AS WE LISTEN TO
AND CONSIDER THE STORIES
FROM OUR PRESENTERS, WE DISCOVER THAT
NOT ALL PROBLEMS CAN BE SOLVED
IN AN ISOLATED FASHION WITH MEDICATION,
RELIGIOUS PRACTICE, OR THERAPY ALONE.

WE FIND THAT PEOPLE
WHO PRESENT COMPLEX STORIES OFTEN REQUIRE
MULTIFACETED APPROACHES THAT CAN INVOLVE
A COMBINATION OF PASTORAL SUPPORT,
OTHER FAITH COMMUNITY MEMBERS, FAMILY, AND PERHAPS MEDICAL
OR MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONALS. SOME FAITH COMMUNITIES
MAY HAVE A PSYCHOLOGIST, COUNSELOR,
OR NURSE ON STAFF, BUT MOST DO NOT HAVE
SUCH RESOURCES, AND DISCERNMENT FREQUENTLY FALLS
INTO THE HANDS OF CLERGY ALONE. LEARNING
A FEW BASIC SKILLS TO SCREEN FOR
MENTAL HEALTH PROBLEMS COULD BE OF GREAT VALUE
TO CLERGY, WHO OFTEN ARE THE FIRST
AND ONLY RESPONDERS. TAKING A LITTLE TIME
TO DEVELOP SOME FUNDAMENTAL SKILLS
CAN BE HELPFUL IN DETERMINING WHETHER OR NOT
A SITUATION WARRANTS PROFESSIONAL
MENTAL HEALTH CARE.

KINGHORN: CLERGY ARE CLEARLY
NOT MENTAL HEALTH CLINICIANS. YOU KNOW, THEY DON'T… YOU DON'T DO A STANDARD
MEDICAL INTERVIEW WHEN YOU'RE INTERVIEWING
SOMEONE AS A PASTOR, AND YOU SHOULDN'T,
I THINK. BUT THERE ARE SOME BASIC
KINDS OF THINGS THAT CLERGY CAN
BE AWARE OF. A FEW KIND OF SKILLS
THAT ANY CLERGY CAN PICK UP THAT I THINK WOULD BE
VERY HELPFUL AS BACKGROUND FOR THE KIND OF CONVERSATIONS
THAT HAPPEN BETWEEN PASTORS
AND PARISHIONERS UM, ONE WOULD BE TO,
IF…IF YOU HAVEN'T DONE IT, TO DO SOMETHING THAT WOULD GIVE
A KIND OF BROAD EXPOSURE TO MENTAL HEALTH PRINCIPLES,
TO PRINCIPLES OF DIAGNOSIS. THE MODEL OF MENTAL HEALTH
FIRST AID CAN BE VERY HELPFUL, OR SOMETIMES THERE'S COMMUNITY-BASED
TRAINING RESOURCES THAT CAN BE…THAT ARE OPEN
TO ANYONE IN THE COMMUNITY.

SO A BASIC FAMILIARITY
WITH PSYCHOLOGICAL LANGUAGE, WITH THE WAY
THE DIAGNOSIS FUNCTIONS, AND WITH THE WAY
THAT BASIC KINDS OF… OF MENTAL HEALTH CHALLENGES
LIKE DEPRESSION AND… AND ANXIETY AND PTSD
AND BIPOLAR DISORDER AND THOSE FUNCTION
CAN BE VERY HELPFUL, BECAUSE THE MORE WE KNOW,
THEN THE MORE…MORE COMFORTABLE A CLERGYPERSON IS GONNA BE
IN…IN ENGAGING FOLKS THAT SELF-IDENTIFY
AND SAY, "I'M BIPOLAR," OR "I LIVE WITH DEPRESSION,"
OR "I LIVE WITH SCHIZOPHRENIA OR WITH PTSD." I THINK A FEW OTHER THINGS
THAT CLERGY CAN…CAN KNOW– ONE IS BASIC PRINCIPLES
OF ASSESSING FOR SUICIDE RISK AND VIOLENCE RISK. AS A PSYCHIATRIST,
I DO A LOT OF CONVERSATIONS WITH PATIENTS AROUND
THEIR RISK OF SUICIDE, AND QUITE FRANKLY,
THOSE DECISIONS, FOR ME AS A PSYCHIATRIST,
ARE SOMETIMES VERY CHALLENGING. BUT THE BASICS
ARE NOT THAT HARD. IT'S A MATTER OF, UM…
WHAT WE DO IS WE… WE TALK WITH PEOPLE
ABOUT THEIR HISTORY, ABOUT WHAT THEY'RE
THINKING IN THE PRESENT, ABOUT, UM, DIFFERENT
ASPECTS OF THEIR LIFE, AND WE KNOW IN PSYCHIATRY
THAT CERTAIN THINGS, LIKE A HISTORY
OF HAVING ATTEMPTED SUICIDE, LIKE CURRENT THOUGHTS
OF SUICIDE OR ESPECIALLY A CURRENT
PLAN FOR SUICIDE, UM, LIKE A HISTORY
OF ABUSE OR, UM…OR CURRENT,
UM, RELATIONAL CHALLENGES, UM, OR CURRENT ACTIVE
MENTAL HEALTH SYMPTOMS OR CURRENT GUN OWNERSHIP OR CURRENT SUBSTANCE USE
OR INTOXICATION, ALL OF THESE,
ALONG WITH MANY OTHERS, ARE RISK FACTORS
FOR SUICIDE.

IF CLERGY JUST KNOW
THOSE RISK FACTORS AS WELL AS KNOW
PROTECTIVE FACTORS, OF WHICH FAITH IS OFTEN
A PROMINENT PROTECTIVE FACTOR, AND KNOW SOME OF THE PRINCIPLES
OF RISK ASSESSMENT, THAT CAN HELP WITH
THOSE INITIAL CONVERSATIONS WHEN SOMEONE IS COMING IN
AND ARE SAYING, YOU KNOW, "I'VE BEEN THINKING
ABOUT HURTING MYSELF," CAN GIVE CLERGY
A LITTLE BIT MORE SPACE TO BE ABLE NOT TO KIND OF
PROVIDE THE FINAL ASSESSMENT, BUT TO BE ABLE TO KNOW
HOW TO TALK MEANINGFULLY WITH PEOPLE ABOUT THOSE…
THOSE CHALLENGES. IN THE SAME WAY,
KNOWING BASIC PRINCIPLES OF HOW SUBSTANCE USE AND…
AND SUBSTANCE USE DISORDERS WORK CAN BE HELPFUL. WHEN SOMEONE
IS DRINKING TOO MUCH, TO KNOW WHAT ARE THE…
WHAT ARE THE RECOMMENDED LIMITS ABOVE WHICH WOMEN AND MEN
SHOULD NOT GO, AND FOR MEN,
IT'S 14 DRINKS A WEEK, FOR WOMEN IT'S 7 DRINKS A WEEK
OF ANY FORM OF ALCOHOL. A LOT OF PEOPLE
EXCEED THAT. WE FIND THAT
WHEN PEOPLE DO, THEY'RE AT MUCH GREATER RISK
OF LOSING CONTROL OVER THE USE OF ALCOHOL. LEARNING THE BASICS OF HOW OTHER
KINDS OF SUBSTANCE USE WORKS CAN BE VERY HELPFUL
IN KNOWING THE KINDS
OF QUESTIONS TO ASK AND THE KINDS OF THINGS
TO BEGIN TO RECOGNIZE WHEN SOMEONE IS STRUGGLING
WITH THE USE OF SUBSTANCES.

AROUND MILITARY ISSUES AND AROUND ISSUES
OF MILITARY TRAUMA, I THINK KNOWING SOME BASICS
ABOUT MILITARY CULTURE, KNOWING THE KIND OF LANGUAGE
THAT PEOPLE SPEAK, AND KNOWING JUST HOW
TO ASK THE QUESTIONS, UM, THAT RELATE TO SOMEONE'S
MILITARY EXPERIENCE, UH, CAN BE VERY HELPFUL, AND
THAT'S NOT REALLY HARD TO DO, AND A LOT OF PASTORS THAT ARE
IN MILITARY-FRIENDLY AREAS, HAVE A LOT OF VETERANS
AND MILITARY FAMILIES IN THEIR CONGREGATION,
ALREADY KNOW THOSE THINGS. BUT AGAIN, THE MORE INFORMATION,
THE BETTER I THINK, IN TERMS OF JUST PROVIDING
SOME BASIC COMFORT WITH HAVING
THOSE CONVERSATIONS. WEINTRAUB: RABBIS NEED
TO FUNCTION… ASSESS FUNCTIONING, UM, BUT BEYOND QUESTIONS LIKE,
"ARE YOU WORKING? ARE YOU GOING TO SCHOOL?"
UM…THEY HAVE TO ASK, UH, IN VERY ARTFUL WAYS
ABOUT THE QUALITY OF A PERSON'S SLEEP OR THE CHANGE
IN THEIR EATING HABITS.

AND…AND TO DO SO
NOT IN A WAY THAT'S A CHECKLIST LIKE
AN INTAKE AT A MEDICAL CENTER, BUT IN A WAY THAT EXPRESSES
INTEREST, CURIOSITY, AND, UH…
AND…AND REALLY CONCERN. WHAT I THINK
THE RABBI CAN DO IS TO FIRST OF ALL
NOT JUST BE INTERESTED IN WHAT'S GOING WRONG,
BUT IN GETTING THE WHOLE PICTURE AND ASKING AN INDIVIDUAL,
"WHAT HAS HELPED YOU "IN THE PAST
WITH OTHER CHALLENGES? WHAT HAS BEEN
OF HELP TO YOU?" AND, UM…NOT JUST ASK
ABOUT, UM…DEPRESSION, BUT ALSO ABOUT THE BODY, WHERE IS IT HURTING
IN THE BODY? AND…AND BUILD
A SENSE THAT, UM, THERE ARE MANY DIMENSIONS
TO A PERSON, AND THE HIP BONE
IS CONNECTED TO THE THIGH BONE.

THEY'RE RELATED TO EACH OTHER.
THEY IMPACT ON EACH OTHER. AND, UH…AND THAT, UM,
MANY PEOPLE– I WOULD EVEN SAY MOST PEOPLE,
AT SOME POINT IN THEIR LIFE, BENEFIT FROM SUPPORT, AND I WOULD VERY MUCH
CHARACTERIZE IT AS SUPPORT, NOT AS TREATMENT. FROTHINGHAM: I REALIZE
IT'S NOT MY ROLE TO DIAGNOSE, AND THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT
FOR US AS PASTORAL CARE PEOPLE, IS WE DON'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY
TO DIAGNOSE. WE HAVE…WE MAY HAVE
STRONG CLUES, UM, THAT SOMEONE
IS DEPRESSED, UM, JUST TAKING A LOOK
AT THE PERSON, HOW THE PERSON
IS DRESSED. OFTEN I'LL ASK ABOUT
"HOW ARE YOU SLEEPING?" UM…"HOW ABOUT EATING?" AND YOU KNOW,
DO SORT OF A… A VERY INFORMAL DEPRESSION
CHECKLIST KIND OF THING, AND IF…IF THAT PERSON
HAS THOSE SYMPTOMS, I DON'T HAVE ANY QUALMS
ABOUT SAYING, "HAVE YOU THOUGHT ABOUT
GETTING SOME HELP?" ZEB: IT MAY BE
PART OF OUR CALLING AND THE WAY…THE REASON
WHY WE CHOOSE A PROFESSION, AND IT ALSO MAY BE
PARTLY BECAUSE OF…

WHAT PEOPLE
EXPECT US TO BE, TO SOLVE OUR…
SOLVE THEIR PROBLEMS. AND I FEEL THAT SOMETIMES WE CAN
TAKE THAT A LITTLE TOO FAR AND HAVE TO BE
REALLY COGNIZANT OF PROFESSIONAL LIMITS
AND BOUNDARIES AND KNOW THAT, HEY,
I CAN STILL HELP THIS PERSON. THE BEST WAY TO HELP THEM OR FIX
THEIR PROBLEM IS TO REFER. WHEN PEOPLE COME
TO SEEK HELP, THERE MAY BE SOME HIDDEN
MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES, HIDDEN FROM ME. THEY MAY KNOW ABOUT IT,
OR THEY MAY NOT KNOW ABOUT IT. FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN MUSLIMS
ARE ABOUT TO PRAY, WE RITUALLY WASH OURSELVES
WITH WATER. IF SOMEBODY HAS
OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE DISORDER, THEY MAY START WASHING
THEMSELVES FOR 30, 40 MINUTES. BUT THEY DON'T REALIZE
THIS IS MAYBE A SIGN OF OCD. AND YOU KNOW, THAT'S KIND OF
WHERE I THINK A CHAPLAIN HAS TO BE VERY IN-TUNE
WITH THE SIGNS, AND… AND IF THERE IS CLASSES
OR TRAININGS THAT THEY NEED TO TAKE, THEN THEY NEED TO GET
INVOLVED WITH THAT AND THEN UNDERSTAND
THAT THERE COMES A POINT WHERE WE HAVE TO STOP,
PAUSE, AND REFER.

AND IT'S NOT ABOUT ME.
IT'S ABOUT THE SERVICE. I MEAN, THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT
FOR ASPIRING CLERGY TO TRY TO INTERNALIZE
AS EARLY AS POSSIBLE. FROTHINGHAM: OFTEN IF…
IF A PERSON IS GOING THROUGH A REALLY DIFFICULT TIME,
UH, MENTALLY, UM, OUR TACTIC…MY TACTIC HAS
BEEN WHEN…WHENEVER POSSIBLE IS TO ENGAGE OTHERS
TO HELP BUFFER, UH, THE INTENSITY OF THAT… THE MANIFESTATIONS
OF THE MENTAL ILLNESS. AN EXAMPLE I CAN THINK OF
IS A LONGSTANDING MEMBER'S STRUGGLES WITH
BIPOLAR ILLNESS, AND IN THAT CASE,
SHE'S BEEN… WE'VE WALKED ALONGSIDE HER
FOR MANY YEARS, AND WHEN SHE WAS IN CRISIS,
WE MET WITH HER WITH A TEAM OF PEOPLE. ALAN WAS THERE.
I WAS THERE. A WONDERFUL FRIEND WHO'S A RETIRED SOCIAL WORKER
WAS THERE, AND THEN
AN ACCOUNTANT PERSON. SO WE FORMED A TEAM, AND OVER THE YEARS,
THAT PERSON HAS GOTTEN BETTER, AND NOW WE MEET FOR COFFEE
AND CELEBRATIONS INSTEAD OF KIND OF
CRISIS MANAGEMENT.

BUT I THINK IT REALLY WORKS WELL
IN CONGREGATIONS TO IDENTIFY WHO ARE
YOUR RESOURCE PEOPLE WHO WON'T BE PULLED UNDER,
WHO WON'T BE SHOCKED BUT WHO CAN APPROPRIATELY
COME ALONGSIDE FOLKS WHO PRESENT WITH SYMPTOMS
OF MENTAL ILLNESS. WEINTRAUB: TO…TO IDENTIFY,
UH, MENTAL HEALTH RESOURCES THAT YOU WOULD TRUST,
I THINK THERE ARE A FEW WAYS. IN THE JEWISH COMMUNITY,
THERE IS A… IN 144 COMMUNITIES
IN THE U.S.

AND CANADA, THERE'S A JEWISH
FAMILY SERVICE AGENCY. THEY HAVE VERY WONDERFUL
PROFESSIONALS AND WHO ARE INCREASINGLY
CONNECTED TO THE SYNAGOGUES. THAT'S A NEW DEVELOPMENT
OVER THE PAST 20 YEARS, WHERE THEY KNOW THE RABBIS,
AND THE RABBIS KNOW THEM. SO, UM, THAT'S ONE WAY, IS TO…TO REALLY MEET
WITH AGENCY PEOPLE AND MEET WITH…
AND KNOW THE LAY OF THE LAND. I…I…I DON'T KNOW WHAT PEOPLE
CALL A ROLODEX ANYMORE, BUT TO DEVELOP A ROLODEX
OF BOTH PROGRAMS AND, UM… AGENCIES AND INDIVIDUALS
WHO HAVE SPECIALTIES IN… WHETHER IT'S DOMESTIC VIOLENCE
OR BIPOLAR DISORDER, WHATEVER CHALLENGE
PEOPLE ARE FACING.

AND…AND THEN TO MEET
WITH PEOPLE AND TO ASK COLLEAGUES,
JEWISH AND OTHERWISE, ASK OTHER CLERGY ABOUT
SUCCESS STORIES, WHERE… WHAT'S BEEN PARTICULARLY…
WHO'S BEEN PARTICULARLY SKILLFUL AND, UH…AND ENGAGING
AND BEEN ABLE TO HELP PEOPLE? ZEB: SOME POTENTIAL
ROADBLOCKS THAT I RUN INTO WHEN I WANT TO REFER OUT
PEOPLE WHO COME TO ME TO OTHER SERVICES
ARE MAYBE A LACK OF… THERAPISTS, MENTAL HEALTH
PROFESSIONALS, PSYCHIATRISTS, PSYCHOLOGISTS
IN THE AREA WHO ARE CULTURALLY
COMPETENT. AND IT'S VERY DIFFICULT
SOMETIMES TO ASK SOMEONE
FROM A DIFFERENT CULTURE TO GO TO SOMEONE
FROM A DIFFERENT CULTURE.

IF YOU CAN GET
TO THE POINT WHERE YOU'VE CONVINCED THEM
TO ACTUALLY GO IN, YOU MAYBE EVEN WALK THEM OR MAKE
THE RESERVATION WITH THEM AND THEY'RE ACTUALLY
GOING TO GO. IF THE FIRST SESSION
IS OFFENSIVE, THEY MAY BE TURNED OFF FROM
THE ENTIRE SERVICE IN GENERAL. AND THIS HAS HAPPENED. I'VE HAD…I'VE HAD… I'VE REFERRED OR I KNOW
MUSLIM STUDENTS WHO HAVE GONE TO SECULAR
COUNSELING OPPORTUNITIES, ESPECIALLY
ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES, AND FROM THE FIRST SESSION,
THEY FEEL THAT THE COUNSELOR IS PROJECTING THEIR STEREOTYPES
UPON THE MUSLIM INDIVIDUAL. MAYBE THEY'RE A MUSLIM WOMAN
WHO WEARS A VEIL, AND THEY'RE THINKING,
"OH, SHE MUST BE OPPRESSED. I'M GOING TO
LIBERATE HER." AND SHE'D SAY,
"WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?" YOU KNOW, THAT ALREADY
COMES IN FROM THE BEGINNING, AND THEY'RE WALKING IN LIKE,
"THIS IS NOT GONNA WORK." AND I THINK ONE OF THE WAYS
TO ALLEVIATE THAT IS TO PROVIDE
SENSITIVITY TRAINING AND DIVERSITY CONSULTING
TO MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONALS ON CULTURAL COMPETENCY, WHETHER IT'S SPIRITUAL
OR CULTURAL, WHATEVER IT MAY…

OR A COMBINATION
OF BOTH. CANTRELL: WITH SOME BASIC
ASSESSMENT TOOLS, CLERGY CAN BECOME
A MORE VALUABLE RESOURCE TO THOSE
WHO TURN TO THEM WITH DIVERSE AND SOMETIMES
COMPLICATED STORIES. IT IS IMPORTANT
TO KEEP IN MIND THIS IS NOT SO MUCH
TO DIAGNOSE, CATEGORIZE, OR PIGEONHOLE
ONE'S STORY INTO SOME NEATLY ORGANIZED
MATRIX OR PROCESS OF CARE, BUT RATHER TO EMPHASIZE
THE AWARENESS AND APPRECIATION THAT CLERGY HAVE
OF THE COMPLEX WHOLE PERSON, BODY, MIND, AND SPIRIT. IN A PERFECT WORLD,
WE WOULD HAVE AT OUR DISPOSAL A VETTED LIST
OF RESOURCES FOR EVERY POSSIBLE SCENARIO
THAT IS PRESENTED TO US. BUT THE REALITY IS
THAT IT TAKES WORK AND TIME TO BUILD THE TRUSTING
RELATIONSHIPS IN OUR COMMUNITIES WITH CARE PROVIDERS TO WHOM
WE CAN REFER AND RELY UPON.

HAVING SOME BASIC TOOLS
TO ASSESS NEEDS AND LANGUAGE TO COMMUNICATE WITH
APPROPRIATE PROFESSIONALS IN CLEAR AND INFORMATIVE WAYS
CONTRIBUTES TO GOOD PROGRESS TOWARD HEALING
AND OPTIMAL CARE. IDEALLY, THIS CARE INVOLVES
ONGOING ATTENTION FROM BOTH CLERGY
AND MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONALS. KINGHORN: ANOTHER QUESTION IS WHEN PEOPLE ARE
ACTIVELY IN TREATMENT, MAYBE SOMEBODY DOES HAVE
A DOCTOR OR A PSYCHIATRIST OR PSYCHOLOGIST OR THERAPIST
THAT THEY'RE ALREADY SEEING, AND THEN THE QUESTION
BECOMES, LIKE, HOW CAN THE PASTOR HELPFULLY
COORDINATE WITH THAT PERSON? I WOULD SAY, FIRST OF ALL,
THAT THAT COORDINATION ALWAYS NEEDS TO HAPPEN
THROUGH THE…THE PERSON WHO'S SEEKING HELP. IT SHOULD NEVER HAPPEN– EXCEPT FOR EMERGENCY SITUATIONS,
IT SHOULD NEVER HAPPEN, UH, WITHOUT THAT PERSON'S
KNOWLEDGE OR…OR CONSENT, FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS,
BUT MAINLY HAVING TO DO WITH THE DEGREE TO WHICH
THE PERSON IS WILLING TO TRUST HIMSELF OR HERSELF TO THE PASTOR
AND TO THE THERAPIST. IF ANY OF US FEEL LIKE OUR MOST DEEPLY VULNERABLE
CONVERSATIONS ARE NOT KEPT IN SOME DEGREE OF…
OF CONFIDENCE AND CAN BE SPREAD OUT
TO ANYBODY, THAT'S GOING TO REDUCE
OUR WILLINGNESS TO BE VULNERABLE IN THOSE SPACES. BUT MANY PEOPLE
WHO ARE SEEKING HELP ACTUALLY WANT THEIR PASTORS
AND THEIR THERAPISTS TO BE IN CONVERSATION
WITH EACH OTHER OR AT LEAST
WOULD WELCOME THAT AND CERTAINLY DON'T WANT THERE
TO BE THE PERCEPTION THAT THAT CAN'T HAPPEN.

SO A NUMBER
OF PRACTICAL WAYS THAT THAT…
THAT THAT CAN HAPPEN IS ONE, A PATIENT CAN
OR A CLIENT CAN SIGN A FORM THAT…THAT GIVES
PERMISSION TO THE HEALTH CARE
PRACTITIONER TO BE IN CONTACT
WITH HIS OR HER PASTOR. THAT IS ALWAYS APPROPRIATE
IF…IF THE PERSON INITIATES THAT AND HAS THAT
CONVERSATION WITH THE THERAPIST. UM, SOMETIMES THERAPISTS
WILL TAKE A VERBAL CONSENT IN THAT REGARD,
BUT ANYBODY IN HEALTH CARE IS GOING TO BE VERY LEERY
OF SHARING ANYTHING CONFIDENTIAL ABOUT A HEALTH CARE SITUATION
WITHOUT THE EXPRESSED CONSENT OF THE PERSON
WHO IS IN TREATMENT, AND THAT'S APPROPRIATE.

BUT WITH THE CONSENT,
WITH THE BLESSING OF THE PERSON
WHO'S SEEKING HELP, THERE'S NO LIMIT TO THE KINDS
OF CONVERSATIONS THAT… THAT CAN HAPPEN. I THINK THERE ARE
SOME BARRIERS TO THAT. THERE IS, AS I SAID,
THE PERCEPTION SOMETIMES THAT… THAT CONFIDENTIALITY
SHOULD KEEP THOSE CONVERSATIONS FROM HAPPENING,
WHICH IS NOT TRUE. THERE'S ALSO THE FACT THAT BOTH
PASTORS AND CLERGYPEOPLE AND CLINICIANS
TEND TO BE VERY BUSY, AND SO TAKING THE TIME
TO HAVE A PHONE CONVERSATION OR A FACE-TO-FACE CONVERSATION
IS SOMETIMES JUST HARD TO ARRANGE, AND…
AND SOMETIMES THAT… THAT JUST GETS DROPPED. BUT THERE'S NO REASON
THAT IT CAN'T HAPPEN. BUT ONCE THAT'S HAPPENED, THEN EITHER THE THERAPIST
AND THE CLERGYPERSON CAN SPEAK APART FROM THE CLIENT
OR WITH THE CLIENT. SOMETIMES, UM, CLINICIANS
AND THERAPISTS WOULD WELCOME IT IF PASTORS ACTUALLY ACCOMPANY
SOMEONE TO A THERAPY SESSION. THAT MAY OR MAY NOT
BE APPROPRIATE, MAY OR MAY NOT BE TOO MUCH
OF AN IMPOSITION ON THE PASTOR'S TIME.
I DON'T WANT TO SUGGEST THAT THAT SHOULD ALWAYS BE
AN OBLIGATION, BUT IT IS SOMETIMES
AN OPPORTUNITY.

UM, SOMETIMES THERE MIGHT BE
OPPORTUNITIES FOR A THERAPIST TO ACCOMPANY
A…A…A CLIENT TO SOMETHING WITHIN
THE FAITH COMMUNITY. THESE ARE GONNA BE HIGHLY
INDIVIDUAL KINDS OF SITUATIONS. BUT FOR THE MOST PART,
THE PRINCIPLE OF GOING THROUGH THE…THE CONSENT
OF THE PERSON WHO'S SEEKING HELP IN ORDER TO ENSURE
THAT THAT PERSON FEELS SAFE TO DISCLOSE DEEPLY
PERSONAL INFORMATION TO BOTH PASTOR
AND THERAPIST WITHOUT CONCERN THAT
THAT INFORMATION IS GOING TO THEN BE
TRANSMITTED TO OTHERS APART FROM HIS
OR HER CONSENT AND ALSO THE PRINCIPLE OF,
IF PEOPLE ARE SPEAKING THE SAME LANGUAGE AND
COMMUNICATING WITH EACH OTHER, THAT USUALLY IS
GOING TO WORK OUT BEST. SO FOR…FOR A THERAPIST
AND A PASTOR AND A PERSON TO BE ALL
IN MUTUAL CONVERSATION AROUND WHAT'S BEST
AND THE BEST WAY FORWARD IS GOING TO REDUCE
THE POSSIBILITY OF SPLITTING, REDUCE THE POSSIBILITY
OF TRIANGULATION. IT'S GOING TO LEAD TO MORE
HELPFUL COMMUNITY RESPONSES. IT'S GOING TO HELP THE PASTOR
FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE IN PROVIDING PASTORAL CARE.

AND OVERALL, THE CLIENT HAS
PEOPLE WALKING WITH HIM OR HER IN CONCERT
ON THE JOURNEY. WEINTRAUB: THE REALLY
IMPORTANT THING IS THAT THE RABBI
NOT SAY, "NOW GO THERE, GET THIS,
AND DON'T COME BACK." UM, WE SHOULD BE CONCERNED
ABOUT HOW THE RABBI WILL CONTINUE TO BE GLUE
TO HELP SOMEBODY BOTH TAKE CARE
OF THEMSELVES PROPERLY AND COMPLY WITH, UM…
WITH WHATEVER TREATMENT THE PROFESSIONALS
ARE SUGGESTING. AND AGAIN, LIKE, THE RABBI
CAN BE A HOME BASE THAT THE PERSON
RETURNS TO, AND IN THE BEST
OF ALL WORLDS, THERE WOULD BE
A KIND OF CONTRACT, MAYBE EVEN
A WRITTEN CONTRACT, OF WHO'S ON THE TEAM. OK? THERE'S THE ALMIGHTY.
WE KNOW THAT. BUT THERE'S ALSO THE…
THE PSYCHIATRIST OR THE SOCIAL WORKER
AND THE, UM… THE SPOUSE AND THE…
YOU KNOW, AND…AND… AND EXPLORE HOW PEOPLE
ARE GOING TO TALK TO EACH OTHER AND…AND WHAT INFORMATION
WILL BE SHARED FOR YOUR BENEFIT. ONCE SOMEONE IS ENGAGED
IN A MENTAL HEALTH PROCESS OF…

OF EXPLORING THEIR… THEIR INNERMOST EXPERIENCES
AND THOUGHTS, I THINK THE RABBI
HAS A CRITICAL ROLE. I THINK OF A FEW THINGS. ONE IS CELEBRATING. UM…THAT'S
SOMETHING THAT… THAT THE, UM, MENTAL HEALTH
PROFESSIONAL MAY NOT BE DOING. WE NEED TO CELEBRATE GROWTH
AND NAME IT, AND…AND…AND THAT'S
WHY THAT ONGOING JEWISH SPIRITUAL ASSESSMENT
IS IMPORTANT, BECAUSE IT CAN SAY,
YOU KNOW, "I'M NO LONGER
FEELING ABANDONED, BUT I AM FEELING SAD." ANOTHER THING IS, UM…
TO REINFORCE THE LEARNING WITH TRADITIONAL TEXT. LET ME GIVE YOU
ONE MULTIPURPOSE QUOTE. HILLEL, A GREAT RABBI
OF THE FIRST CENTURY, IS FAMOUS FOR SAYING, "IF I AM NOT FOR MYSELF,
WHO WILL BE FOR ME? "IF I AM ONLY
FOR MYSELF, WHAT AM I? AND IF NOT NOW, WHEN?" SO THAT'S A VERY
COMPELLING QUOTE. IT'S MULTIPURPOSE. I'VE USED IT FOR A THOUSAND
DIFFERENT INTERACTIONS. BUT, YOU KNOW, "IF I'M NOT
FOR MYSELF, WHO WILL BE FOR ME?" IS…IS REALLY POWERFUL
FOR THE INDIVIDUAL.

"BUT IF I'M ONLY
FOR MYSELF, WHAT AM I?" YOU KNOW, THE…
EVERYBODY'S MENTAL HEALTH DEPENDS ON SERVICE, DEPENDS ON
HELPING SOMEBODY ELSE, EVEN IN THE SIMPLEST
RANDOM ACT OF KINDNESS. AND THEN FINALLY,
"IF NOT NOW, WHEN?" AT EVERY MOMENT…
AT EVERY MOMENT, YOU CAN MAKE AN INVESTMENT
IN TAKING CARE OF YOURSELF OR IN TAKING CARE
OF SOMEBODY ELSE. POOLE: ONE OF THE GREAT JOYS
THAT I'VE EXPERIENCED IN WORKING WITH PEOPLE
IN CRISIS HAVE BEEN WHEN THERE HAS…
HAS…HAS BEEN WHEN THERE IS
A GOOD SYNCHRONICITY BETWEEN MYSELF, THE PERSON
WHO'S COME TO SEE ME, AND THE THERAPIST. WE'VE BEEN A LITTLE SPOILED
IN THAT WE HAVE A NUMBER OF THERAPISTS
WHO HAVE COME TO TRUST OUR PASTORAL WORK, AND WE HAVE COME TO TRUST
THEIR THERAPEUTIC WORK, AND WITH THE FULL PERMISSION
OF THE PERSON, WE'VE BEEN TOGETHER
IN THE SAME ROOM– THERAPIST, PASTOR,
AND PATIENT, AND MAYBE A COUPLE
OF OTHER PEOPLE.

AND THAT'S BEEN
A WONDERFUL CONTEXT FOR OPEN CONVERSATION
THAT HAS BENEFITED BOTH FROM THE TYPICALLY
LONGER-TERM RELATIONSHIP THAT THE PASTOR HAS WITH THE…
WITH THE CONGREGANT AND THE INSIGHTS THAT
THE THERAPIST CAN…CAN BRING. ONCE I'VE REFERRED SOMEBODY
TO A THERAPIST… IN AN IDEAL WORLD–IT DOESN'T
ALWAYS WORK OUT THIS WAY– I THINK MY RESPONSIBILITY IS
TO FOLLOW UP WITH THAT PERSON, NOT TO DUPLICATE
THE THERAPY OR TO, UM…
CORRECT THE THERAPIST, NOT IN ANY WAY, BUT TO CHECK IN WITH THE PERSON
AND LET HIM OR HER KNOW THAT THIS IN NO WAY
CHANGES OUR RELATIONSHIP.

I THINK IT REALLY BECOMES
IMPORTANT AT THAT POINT FOR ME TO ENCOURAGE
AND SUPPORT AS OPPOSED TO GIVING
A SIGNAL LIKE "WELL, OK, I'VE WASHED
MY HANDS OF YOU BECAUSE YOU'RE NOW
IN THE THERAPIST'S WORLD." I WANT TO BE WITH YOU TO GIVE
YOU SUPPORT AND ENCOURAGEMENT, AND I MEAN THAT
IN THE LITERAL SENSE, TOO– ENCOURAGE, TO GIVE
COURAGE TO PEOPLE TO CONTINUE TO MOVE,
BECAUSE WHEN PEOPLE ARE ENGAGED IN
A THERAPEUTIC RELATIONSHIP, THAT'S HARD WORK,
THAT'S EXHAUSTING WORK. AND THEY NEED TO KNOW
THAT THIS IS NOT GOING TO FUNDAMENTALLY AFFECT, UH…
THE RELATIONSHIP THAT THEY HAVE WITH THE PASTOR
OR THE PERSON WHO'S RESPONSIBLE
FOR CONGREGATIONAL CARE AND THAT THERE CAN BE
REALLY RICH REWARDS FOR THE CONGREGATION,
NOT JUST THE INDIVIDUAL, BUT THE CONGREGATION.

SOME OF OUR BEST PEOPLE, IN TERMS OF OUR CONGREGATIONAL
SUPPORT SYSTEM, ARE THOSE WHO ARE COMING OUT
OF THEIR OWN BROKENNESS AND HAVE A STORY TO TELL. THAT GIVES THEM CREDIBILITY
THAT I DON'T HAVE. IN SPITE OF THE FACT THAT I
HAVE THE TITLE OF PASTOR, PEOPLE ARE INCLINED
TO TRUST SOMEONE WHO ACTUALLY CAN IDENTIFY
WITH THEIR OWN PAIN, WITH THEIR OWN
CIRCUMSTANCES IN LIFE. ZEB: I BELIEVE
THAT THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN CLERGY AND PEOPLE
THAT COME TO THEM IS ETERNAL.

IT…ONCE IT BEGINS,
IT DOESN'T END. EVEN IF I REFER SOMEONE
TO, LET'S SAY, A PSYCHOLOGIST
IN THE AREA, I WILL TELL THEM
THAT I'M REFERRING YOU TO THEM FOR THIS CERTAIN REASON, BUT IT DOESN'T MEAN
THAT YOU AND I, THE RELATIONSHIP THAT WE HAVE
GOING FORWARD ENDS TODAY. IF YOU WANT TO COME BACK
AND CONNECT WITH ME, THAT'S TOTALLY FINE. IF THE PSYCHOLOGIST
WANTS TO CALL ME AND ASK ME FOR SOME ADVICE ON
CERTAIN ISSUES RELATED TO ISLAM, NOT NECESSARILY
ABOUT YOU, BUT GENERALLY ABOUT
ISLAMIC TRADITION, I'M WILLING TO DO
THAT AS WELL. BUT I DON'T WANT TO DISCLOSE
WHAT YOU AND I HAVE SAID UNLESS YOU SAY THAT'S OK
FOR ME TO DO SO.

BUT I WANT TO MAKE SURE
THAT YOU UNDERSTAND THAT EVEN THOUGH YOU HAVE
MOVED ON TO THIS PERSON FOR THIS CERTAIN ISSUE,
IN GENERAL, I'M STILL WITH YOU AND WANT TO WALK
THAT PATH WITH YOU. GADSON: THERE
ARE TIMES, UM… WHILE THERAPY IS ONGOING
WITH AN INDIVIDUAL I WILL DETERMINE
THAT IT SEEMS AS THOUGH THE PSYCHOLOGICAL INTERVENTION
MAY BE RUNNING ITS COURSE, AND THERE MAY BE OPPORTUNITIES
FOR THEM TO BE REDIRECTED BACK TO THE CLERGY. I DO BELIEVE THAT SOME PEOPLE
MAY PRESENT WITH, AGAIN, THAT COMPLEXITY
OF AN ISSUE, WHERE THERE ARE
SOME THINGS PSYCHOLOGICALLY THAT THEY NEED THERAPY,
SOME INTERVENTION WITH, AND ONCE THEY HAVE THAT
UNDER CONTROL, WHAT ENDS UP HAPPENING
IS IT OPENS UP THIS CONVERSATION ABOUT "I WONDER WHY DID
GOD ALLOW THIS" OR "AM I BEING PUNISHED?"
OR, UM…

"IS THERE UNFORGIVENESS
IN MY HEART?" OR WHATEVER
THE CASE MIGHT BE, AND THAT'S WHERE I TAKE
THE OPPORTUNITY TO INVITE THEM TO GO BACK AND TO SPEAK
WITH THE CLERGY AND UNDERSCORE THAT THAT IS
A THEOLOGICAL, SPIRITUAL MATTER THAT I FEEL TRULY THE CLERGY ARE
BEST SUITED TO ADDRESS THOSE… THOSE ISSUES. I THINK IT COMMUNICATES THAT IT'S NOT JUST
FOR ONE PERSON TO DO, THAT THERE IS A NEED
FOR THERE TO BE THIS MULTI-DISCIPLINED TEAM,
IF YOU WILL, APPROACH TO DEALING WITH
SOME OF THE ISSUES THAT THE INDIVIDUALS
BRING IN, AS WELL AS IT…IT ALLOWS
THE INDIVIDUAL TO KNOW THAT THERE ARE
DIFFERENT ASPECTS THAT THEY'RE HAVING TO
DEAL WITH AS WELL. IT'S BEING ABLE TO SAY
THIS IS A MATTER THAT A CLINICIAN
NEEDS TO ADDRESS, THAT YOU NEED SOME
PSYCHOLOGICAL UNDERSTANDING AND/OR INTERVENTION, AND WHEN WE GET
TO THIS PLACE, THE CLERGY
WILL BE BETTER SUITED TO ADDRESS SOME OF THE MORE
THEOLOGICAL, SPIRITUAL MATTERS THAT YOU MIGHT BE
WRESTLING WITH. MEADOR: WE HOPE
THAT THIS VIDEO HAS INVITED YOU
TO THINK ABOUT WAYS THAT YOU AND YOUR
FAITH COMMUNITY MIGHT IMPROVE
COLLABORATIONS WITH MENTAL HEALTH
PROFESSIONALS.

SOME QUESTIONS
WE INVITE YOU TO CONSIDER
MOVING FORWARD INCLUDE… WHAT ARE THE MENTAL HEALTH
SERVICE RESOURCES IN YOUR COMMUNITY? HOW DO YOU CONTACT THEM? WHAT RESOURCES ARE AVAILABLE
FOR PERSONS WHO MAY NOT HAVE FINANCIAL MEANS
OR HEALTH INSURANCE? HOW MIGHT YOU ESTABLISH OR
IMPROVE TRUSTING RELATIONSHIPS WITH THOSE IN THE MENTAL
HEALTH COMMUNITY? CONSIDER BUILDING UPON EXISTING
INROADS THAT YOU MAY HAVE OR GETTING TOGETHER
WITH REPRESENTATIVES FROM KEY ORGANIZATIONS
IN YOUR COMMUNITY. IN WHAT WAYS MIGHT YOU HELP
YOUR COMMUNITY ADDRESS SOME OF THE STIGMA
AROUND MENTAL HEALTH PROBLEMS AND MENTAL HEALTH CARE? AS A LEADER
IN YOUR CONGREGATION, YOU CAN SET
A POWERFUL EXAMPLE FOR WHETHER AND HOW PEOPLE
RECEIVE MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES..

Motivateyourhealth

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